Need help with c(e)c, etc genetics please

[sharky]

The c^ec, c^chc^e, c^ec genes have always got me confused when crossing with a C* mouse.

In particular I'm trying to figure out c^ec X C* (Yes, probably easy for most breeders but having never worked with this before I'm confused!). I use punnet squares to figure out genetics but I'm not quite sure how this one works :S

This is how I am currently figuring it out but I Know I'm doing it wrong ....can someone correct me and point me in the right direction? This is the only part of mouse genetics I can't get my head around....I know how to do this and I'm all set!



Thank you

[greydawnbreaking]

Looks like you did it right to me. You're crossing a bone with a non-dilute, right?

So, options. You're going to get a 50% "chance" of having a non-dilute, and I say chance because it's basically guaranteed. Those are the Cc and Cc(e) genotypes.

Then there's the unknown gene. If it's C, that means you'll have more non-dilutes who are also Cc and Cc(e).

Or you could have either c(e)-related or c-related c-dilutes.
--For c(e) that's c(e)c bone, c(e)c(h) CPB, c(e)c(ch) dark mock chocolate, c(e)c(e) beige/reverse siamese.
--For c that's cc albino, cc(h) himalayan, cc(ch) light mock chocolate, cc(e) bone.

Basically, as soon as you make the pairing you'll know whether your non-dilute is a carrier for c-dilute genes or homozygous for CC. If the parent is CC, that means that you won't know exactly which c-dilute gene any given baby is carrying, but you'll know for sure that they're all a carrier of either c or c(e). The spectrum of colors you see, if there's a c-dilute as the unknown gene, will tell you precisely what genetics the C* parent has.

Do you know anything about the background of the non-dilute? Parents, siblings, anything? Remember that a c(ch)c(ch) will look solid black, although more faded than jet black, and the mock chocolates will look remarkably like a chocolate mouse especially if they have poor points. Not all c-dilutes are pale.

[greydawnbreaking]

I should correct myself--a mouse with aa c(ch)c(ch) will look solid faded black. A* c(ch)c(ch) is chinchilla.

[sharky]

Thank you....I actually did it right? Another breeder told me I did it wrong...thank you!!!!

The non-dilute I don't know much about sorry, I do know that when he was bred (With the past owner) he produced a full litter of black babies when paired to a black female....does this mean he is CC?

(Thank you for the help again!

[greydawnbreaking]

Well, if you did do something wrong, then I'm just as mystified as you. Did they tell you exactly how it was wrong?

Regarding the previous litter, if he's aa C* and she's aa C* and the entire litter was aa C* then it's likely that one or both of them is CC but it's not impossible. Mice don't have mathematical litters, so just because there's a 25% chance of a given color or whatever doesn't mean that it's a guarantee and it's possible that they both were Cc* and by some fluke the babies all carried C. And if they were both havanas (aa c(ch)c(ch) genotype) then that would guarantee that the entire litter would also be havanas.

[sharky]

They told me that Cc(e) and c* didn't exist Being new to mouse genetics I guess I'm pretty gullible...at least I know I'm doing it right now

I know that the genetic factor doesn't always play by the rules....learnt that from rats! I guess I'll have to wait and see...I'm breeding the father(gorgeous Blaze boy in my avatar!) back with some of the daughters and then brother/sister pairings between his offspring (I bought the whole litter that was sired by Blaze....super pretty black broken marked mice! )

I guess I will find out soon enough when babies are born, mice and their genetics are so interesting! ^_^

[greydawnbreaking]

Well, they're right in as much as you can't tell Cc(e) from CC or Cc or Cc(ch) just by looking--since C is dominant it completely masks the presence of the c-dilutes. But they're completely wrong that C and c-dilute genes can't coexist. I can personally vouch for that--I've got an agouti longcoat boy who's either Cc or Cc(e) since his mom was a bone. I'm planning to breed him to a burmese girl, so we'll see which one it is when the pups arrive.

Using c* isn't standard notation, but it's something that I've done myself. It's useful when dealing with mice who undoubtedly some kind of a c-dilute gene in play, maybe even narrowed down to a likely two or three, but I can't be more sure than that.

[sharky]

Wow, very interesting I'm learning so much from this thread alone, thank you again for taking the time out to explain!

I'm really interested to see how this litter turn out! And the other ones...I usually breed mainly for health and temperament but the colours in this litter has really got me thinking

[mousekateers]

I don't use punnet squares because I suck at them! but I do lovvvveeeee Ausrfsnsw Phenotypes and Genotypes in Australia. Have a look at that thread too.

[sharky]

I use the Excel file to get all of the genotype but I'm not sure how you would use it to work out genetics? But yes, it is awesome! It is my go to for mouse genetics