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Post by applecheeks on Oct 23, 2013 9:20:37 GMT 10
How old are these pups now? and do you have photos? I'm assuming their eyes are open and they're fully furred? So they ARE ruby-eyed black marked? In which case you've probably just bred an anomaly such as we get from time to time with things that have odd-eyes (one black, one ruby). Lucky you, this is what is so interesting about breeding mice. The bubs are only a week old today so no, their eyes are not open and they are not fully furred - eyes don't open until around 12-14 days. Definitely ruby eyed, definitely black marked.
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Post by greydawnbreaking on Oct 23, 2013 14:15:05 GMT 10
Maybe you've independently discovered the ru gene? Finnmouse says that the ru gene acts like d, only less so. So maybe what appears to be black is actually a diluted color that still looks black (something that might appear similar to sepia/havana)?
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Post by mousekateers on Oct 23, 2013 16:51:52 GMT 10
How old are these pups now? and do you have photos? I'm assuming their eyes are open and they're fully furred? So they ARE ruby-eyed black marked? In which case you've probably just bred an anomaly such as we get from time to time with things that have odd-eyes (one black, one ruby). Lucky you, this is what is so interesting about breeding mice. The bubs are only a week old today so no, their eyes are not open and they are not fully furred - eyes don't open until around 12-14 days. Definitely ruby eyed, definitely black marked. For something new like this, personally I wouldn't make any assumptions until they're 3-4 weeks old or have even gone through their first moult, unless you're breeding these on a regular basis and have seen them before. Looking forward to seeing later photos. Should be exciting.
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 23, 2013 17:00:23 GMT 10
The bubs are only a week old today so no, their eyes are not open and they are not fully furred - eyes don't open until around 12-14 days. Definitely ruby eyed, definitely black marked. For something new like this, personally I wouldn't make any assumptions until they're 3-4 weeks old or have even gone through their first moult, unless you're breeding these on a regular basis and have seen them before. Looking forward to seeing later photos. Should be exciting. The only time I have ever seen a mouse go through a moult is with pointed varieties.
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Post by mousekateers on Oct 23, 2013 17:11:25 GMT 10
oh really, I don't mean the typical Siamese moult that sometimes happens in temperature changes, but all pups moult their baby coats into adult coats at around 5 weeks of age, give or take a week. I don't know what varieties you're experienced with, I suspect that the marked mice you have would be a little difficult to assess unless of course they are long coat which is easily seen when they drop an amount of baby fluff. You would have seen 5 week old long coat pups with the traditional "skirt"? Well that's the adult coat coming in from the top down.
This is why too, that a lovely clear fawn can change into a totally different mouse when the sabling comes in with the moult, and you can finally see the foxing on a bone pup at around that age.
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 23, 2013 17:18:07 GMT 10
oh really, I don't mean the typical Siamese moult that sometimes happens in temperature changes, but all pups moult their baby coats into adult coats at around 5 weeks of age, give or take a week. I don't know what varieties you're experienced with, I suspect that the marked mice you have would be a little difficult to assess unless of course they are long coat which is easily seen when they drop an amount of baby fluff. You would have seen 5 week old long coat pups with the traditional "skirt"? Well that's the adult coat coming in from the top down. This is why too, that a lovely clear fawn can change into a totally different mouse when the sabling comes in with the moult, and you can finally see the foxing on a bone pup at around that age. I've yet to see a long coat with a "skirt" actually.. In regards to the fawn - I haven't seen one of those in 3 years now and we do not have the genes that make bone and beige - New Zealand is VERY limited so its not often I see a mouse going through an obvious moult unless it is pointed (not just siamese). Despite all that, these guys look pretty darn black to me.
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Post by mousekateers on Oct 23, 2013 17:38:48 GMT 10
ah, that explains a lot! Didn't realise you are in NZ. Look forward to pics when they're older.
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 23, 2013 18:06:25 GMT 10
ah, that explains a lot! Didn't realise you are in NZ. Look forward to pics when they're older. Haha yes, you don't tend to expect a NZer on an Australian forum
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Post by greydawnbreaking on Oct 26, 2013 9:48:43 GMT 10
How are these litters looking? Not gonna lie, I'm fascinated by how the genetics of this lot are going to interact with the phenotypes you're seeing. Are they still looking like pink-eyed true blacks?
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 26, 2013 15:01:47 GMT 10
How are these litters looking? Not gonna lie, I'm fascinated by how the genetics of this lot are going to interact with the phenotypes you're seeing. Are they still looking like pink-eyed true blacks? Well I stuffed up with the sexing hence the "drastic change" of one of the babies in this picture of the females - still as black as can be! Possible ruby eyed bubs are 10 days old now so still a few days before eyes open (I'm growing ever so impatient..) I still suspect they may be ruby eyed pied marked blacks, I can still clearly tell the possible ruby eyed bubs from their dark eyed siblings currently.
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 29, 2013 8:33:59 GMT 10
A quick update for you guys. One of the potential ruby eyed bubs has started to open one of her eyes so expect pictures within the next 24 hours
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 29, 2013 10:07:22 GMT 10
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Post by greydawnbreaking on Oct 29, 2013 11:24:45 GMT 10
*grabby hands* Why is oceans? Oh, they're completely wonderful! What a nifty collection of genes you've got there.
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Post by applecheeks on Oct 29, 2013 11:36:41 GMT 10
*grabby hands* Why is oceans? Oh, they're completely wonderful! What a nifty collection of genes you've got there. Neat huh? I'm thinking I might just have to keep a ruby eyed buck and try replicate the ruby eyed pied blacks - I don't see why it isn't possible since there is 4 out of 6 ruby eyed bubs.
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Post by greydawnbreaking on Oct 29, 2013 11:57:12 GMT 10
If Ruby Eyed White comes from ru overmarked mice, then what you might have is the original marked/ru gene combo. So cool that it's apparently spontaneously recurred! The black does look just very faintly diluted, but I could be confusing that with the roaning effect of all the white hairs in their baby coat. Or maybe you've discovered an entirely new gene.
I'd definitely keep a few of these bubs so you've got breeding options, this would be a fascinating line to explore. With four out of six ruby pieds, if neither of the parents expressed it, this might be a spontaneous dominant gene mutation that came from just one parent? Crossing a ruby pied to a non-ruby pied would be another interesting cross.
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